Biden Wins!
First… the debates. I caught the second half on the radio (had class last night, more on that later), then watched the first half on the replay.
Factcheck.org more or less calls it a draw in misstatements and fudging of facts. Naturally, the Republican is nailed more times for untrue statements than the Democrat. But since it’s pretty close, I can’t fairly (by my standards) factor that into my decision. I declare Joe Biden the winner. My reasons are here:
- Declaring Sarah Palin the winner just because she didn’t completely screw it up is a pretty low standard, and not something I would ever use as a substitute for doing well in making and defending your points.
- Joe Biden came off as knowledgeable and kept his distance when he could have cashed in on Palin’s mistakes during the debate.
- Palin didn’t really talk about the issues much, if at all. She kept stumping in lieu of an answer. Her handlers ought to have made clear it was a debate, not a campaign rally. Her breathtakingly flat response to Biden’s story on how he relates to average Americans really sealed the deal for me.
- Like McCain, she was quite condescending.
Let me expound upon number 4 for a bit. I’m probably not the only one who noticed her smiling politely while talking down to him out of the side of her mouth. This “hockey mom” is going to be very disliked in the Senate if she treats her colleagues as if they’re her children.
Her shitty attitude was like a flashback for me–a flashback to Jr. High. I detected a major princess complex last night. Something tells me she’s gotten her way her whole life. Has an awfully familiar ring to it, no? Ask me why I think this is the case and I’ll tell you.
Republicans who don’t typically give a shit about women’s issues crying “sexism!!!” in 5… 4… 3…
Tags: 2008 General Election, Biden, debate, Palin
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 am
“Her breathtakingly flat response to Biden’s story on how he relates to average Americans really sealed the deal for me.”
Really???!!! I thought her attempt to show that she’s just a middle-class average American was much more convincing than [sniff sniff] Biden’s. I didn’t buy his ‘I feel your pain’ scene either.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:53 am
You think Biden won? There’s a shocker!
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:04 am
Why? It’s really not that shocking. :)
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:09 am
tsheets - Biden’s story is pretty genuine. Nearly all of the things he mentioned were also in the short “getting to know the candidates” type documentary on him I watched on… CNN, I think (I don’t watch much TV). Palin had a different set of struggles, sure, but she was never a single parent. Hers are more current, in the form of the baby with Down’s and the fiasco surrounding her daughter’s pregnancy.
My beef is more with her response to Biden’s story by giving the same stuttering, passionless, hollow stump speech she’d been giving all night when she didn’t have enough information to answer the questions thoroughly. I’m surprised she didn’t try correcting him on that, too. “Oh, Joe, that’s so cute how maverick you think anyone gives maverick a gosh darn about maverick your boring little maverick meaningless life, don’tcha know… maverick.”
diane - Heh… now remember, I also declared the first Obama/McCain debate a draw before going to factcheck.org
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:52 am
How dare anyone try and claim sexism when she was fucking FLIRTING WITH THE CAMERA.
I about fell the hell over when she WINKED. WTF is that? You’re in a goddamn Vice Presidential debate during one of the most critical times in recent history…are you suggesting that you can just flirt those issues away?
Disgusting.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 am
Palin: did very well, if she were debating for a high school student body president. :)
Her act might have gone over better in 2000 when times were good but right now people want serious solutions and Palin gave no indication that she had the competence to deliver.
But time will tell, and ultimately people vote the top of the ticket.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
Palin: she reminds me of the student who doesn’t know their stuff but tries to BS their way though the course with charm.
Then again, she might make a good sales person whose goal it is to get the top dollar for a very weak product; it helps if the customers are gullible.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 am
Corina - Ha! I thought I was seeing things when that happened. I think you nailed it; when she wasn’t waffling through her script, she was relying on charm rather than knowledge much of the night as evidenced by her excessive use of colloquialisms to paint herself as down to earth.
My bullshit detector wasn’t exploding last night, but my patience was incredibly thin by the time I’d watched all of it. I think this is mainly because she didn’t talk about the issues, especially not in any specificity. It was “Stock Republican answer attack Obama… Stock Republican answer vote McCain! We’re mavericks!.”
ollie - It’s a good thing we’re savvy shoppers.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:19 am
I’m for Obama, but Palin clearly won. Here’s why. She showed that McCain didn’t make the dumbest pick for VP - Obama did. I’ll say what everybody is thinking: If Obama had picked Hillary this election would be over already! Just think about. Obama needs a little help in the redneck democrat areas of a few swing states and a little (not a lot) with women, just the areas where Hillary would give a little bump. If Obama had Hillary instead of Biden, Michelle would be picking the pattern for the White House china. If Obama had picked Hillary, McCain would not have picked Palin. He probably would have picked that lame idiot Romney, the only guy around who is wealthier that Cindy McCain. That would have played real well in this financial crisis (sarcasm). Can you imagine a Hillary vs. Mitt debate? It would have been a bloodbath. Instead we got Biden - a guy nobody took seriously when he campained for Pres. And we’re all supposed to kid ourselves about what a great job he did? If Obama loses this race (I don’t think he will but if he does) it will be because of a dumb mistake he made in August - picking ABC (anybody but Clinton) as VP. Why didn’t he pick Clinton? Only reason I can think of is that he didn’t want to share the spot light with her or admit that he needed her help to win in November. That’s a real shame.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:28 am
I don’t recall anyone saying Biden did a great job running for president. Either way, he was a safe pick and a smart pick. The guy knows what he’s doing as he demonstrated last night.
As for Hillary not being picked, I think the only person who can be blamed for that is Mrs. Clinton. Number one rule of party politics: you do not destroy the potential nominee in the primaries. I think this will be a lesson to both parties for quite some time.
I agree with you that McCain didn’t make a dumb pick politically. Unfortunately for the rest of us, his playing politics means there’s a chance someone who is not competent enough to serve as either president or vice president could gain, through some tragedy, the most powerful position in the world. If that doesn’t scare the shit out of people, I don’t know what will.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 am
Politically: McCain was in a box. If he made an independent friendly pick, he ran the danger of getting beat in places like North Dakota (normally red states). With this pick, he firmed up his red areas, but lost ground in the swing states.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:57 am
I have to disagree with you on Hillary. She wasn’t anymore critical of Obama than Biden was during the primaries. Palin pointed out Biden’s attacks on Obama during the primary. If Hillary had been asked, she would have accepted and they could have made nice. After all, remember who called candidate Reagan’s economic policies “voodoo economics,” his future VP. I guess I disagree with the characterization of Biden as a “safe” choice. It won’t be “safe” if the failure to get Hillary costs him the election. And, please, let’s stop saying that Palin is not “competent” to be Pres or VP. Of course she is competent, she has as much experience as Obama (she argues more). When we say she is not “competent” we are playing into her strength, and whether you like it or not, it does sound slightly sexist. Saying “don’t vote for McCain because Palin is incompetent” turns some people off and fires some people up. If we have learned anything from the last two elections, its don’t fight a culture war - we’ll lose. Instead say “don’t vote for McCain because his policies are wrong.” If I don’t hear Palin’s name ever again in this election, I think we’ll win.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I didn’t say Palin was incompetent. I said she isn’t competent enough to be president or vice president. That is a critical point when considering her position. I’d hardly call her experience equivalent. Being the mayor of the Alaskan equivalent of Creve Coeur for X number of years is not my idea of job training for the presidency.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:59 pm
1.) As to experience, let’s not go there. Neither is being a community organizer or a state senator (particularly in Illinois, where state senators just do what they are told).
2.)I didn’t say she was incompetent, I said she was not competent.
See what I mean. Let’s not talk about Palin!
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
1) There’s more to it than that, but I see where you’re coming from.
2) Really, there is a difference.
Anyway, I consider today a free for all on Palin (c’mon, the debates were last night). Otherwise I’m going to ignore her until she does something really stupid.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I’ll take it!
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Sold!